Showing posts with label gay rights. Show all posts
Showing posts with label gay rights. Show all posts

Saturday, May 19, 2012

Son of Letter to a Friend

Rainbow fallsHi [Friend],

I read your blog entry from earlier today, and I feel that I need to say a few things. You wrote that if we allow same sex marriage, we should also allow marriage between multiple spouses because of their religious beliefs.

1. Although I understand your broader point concerning religious freedom and that those religions that condone and promote polygamy should be accommodated, as well as anyone who advocates multiple spouses, this is yet another "slippery slope" argument against marriage equality, akin to the "what is to stop someone from marrying their dog?" argument.

You are comparing the committed relationship between two consenting adults to all forms of relationships; these are not equivalent. You are once again bringing religion into the argument, stating that all religions have equal say, no matter the harm done to its members. I am of the opinion that religious freedom stops when others are harmed, and that is why I think that no parent should be let off the hook for allowing harm to come to their children based on their own beliefs concerning medical treatment. The children are not old enough to make an informed decision, and when they are sick, they have no say in the matter if their parents choose to withhold medical care from them for religious reasons.

2. There are a few arguments against polygamy and polyandry.

First, there is a financial and societal aspect against it. If the government were to allow full benefits to all spouses and children, the cost would be astronomical. Religious freedom is one thing; the full acceptance and financial support of such decisions is another. I am also not a fan of people having dozens of children, because this places an undue burden upon our society, but I understand that we will never legislate any sort of restrictions on that.

Some would argue that marriage equality for same sex couples also erodes society and places an undue burden upon our government. There have been no studies that have shown that committed couples, regardless of gender, are an erosion upon our societal mores.

Rainbow heartsSecond, although I mentioned both polygamy and polyandry, the fact is that the vast majority of polygamous relationships are those that consist of a man having multiple wives, rather than the other way around. In most of these arrangements, the wives are expected to be submissive and subjugated to their husbands. Marriages are often arranged without consent of the woman, and often at a young age, when they are not capable of informed consent. Again, religious freedom stops when rights are violated, and this is a women's rights and a HUMAN rights issue.

If people want to conduct such relationships within their religion, I do not think that it is appropriate to restrict them...UNLESS they are harming others. Women and children are harmed in polygamous relationships. The marriage of a same sex couple harms no one. Again, if people want to have multiple partners, that is their choice...but that does not mean that the government needs to recognize and finance such relationships. A committed relationship and marriage between two people is a social and governmental contract, and same sex couples should have that right.

3. Finally, you wrote in your entry that someone "sent" you an article with the title "Explaining Gay Marriage to an Idiot." Although someone may have indeed sent you that link, it was the title of something I posted on Facebook. If someone sent this to you, I want to make it very clear that it was not me. I would never do that to you. I did not sent that to you in any way, shape, or form, either via email or Facebook message. I posted it on my own Wall, not on yours. I did not tag you in my post. I do not think you're an idiot, and I have made it clear from the very beginning that I was not dismissing your religious beliefs or ridiculing you for them. However, I do think that the "man marrying dog" argument is idiotic. I totally respect your right to say whatever you want on your blog, I never suggested that you did not have such a right, and I never denigrated your religious beliefs. But if we have public blogs, it is to be expected that others might disagree with the opinions we put up there.

I am a strong and vocal advocate of marriage equality for same sex couples in a committed relationship. I often post articles about it, and I have made no secret of my support. If you think that every article I post is directed towards you, you might want to reevaluate whether you want to continue to see my posts. My posts are about topics, not people, and unless I tag you on something, I am not targeting you with any of my posts.


Beth

Monday, May 14, 2012

Letter to a friend

Marriage equalityI recently read a blog entry that disturbed me, and after a brief flameout on Facebook in which I urged anyone who opposed marriage equality to defriend me, this was my more reasoned response. I thought about this all afternoon, and I think it states my feelings fairly well (and without anger). A friend reminded me that we need to keep discussing these things with those who disagree, and he was right. That is how hearts and minds are changed, not by dismissal and angry rhetoric.

Dear [Friend],

I'm sorry it took me a while to get back to you. It's a beautiful day here, so I spent most of the afternoon outside and offline.

I had a very visceral reaction to reading your blog entry about same sex marriage last night. Maybe I was just tired, because it was getting close to my bedtime, but it made me think of the people I love who happen to be gay, and how they so desperately want the same rights afforded to every American citizen.

I am not going to insult your religious beliefs or try to dissuade you from feeling the way you do, but in friendship, I hope you will think about a few things.

1. This is probably the most unkind thing I will say in response to your entry. Your "slippery slope" argument, in which marriage equality could lead to people marrying their dogs (in your example) or their toasters (in other people's examples I have read) is a talking point widely circulated by those who are opposed to equality, and it is simply absurd. For one thing, you (and others) are comparing human beings to animals and inanimate objects. That is cruel and wrong. No one is proposing that anyone be allowed to do any such thing, and no court in the land would uphold such an absurd request...just as they would never uphold the marriage of an adult to a child.

2. As I mentioned in my comment, although many see marriage as a religious concept, that is in addition to the civic aspect; a marriage in a church without a state license is not valid. A marriage in any setting, with a license from the state, IS valid. No one is proposing that churches will be forced to marry same sex couples; in each of the states that have allowed same sex marriage, there are specifications that exempt churches from such an occurrence.

3. You mentioned in your entry that just a few short years ago, you and [your husband] would not have been able to legally marry as a mixed race couple. North Carolina didn't lift their ban on mixed race marriages until 1971. You and [your husband] wouldn't have just been unwelcome in certain states; you would have been in danger of your very lives, and would probably have found a burning cross on your lawn. That may sound harsh, but it is the truth. And why were there laws against mixed race marriages? Because certain lawmakers believed that is what the Bible dictates. This is why we don't make our federal and state laws based on biblical laws. If we did, there would be laws against eating shellfish, wearing clothes of mixed fibers, and planting different crops in the same field. I know I don't need to provide these verses to you.

Obama Rainbow UnicornI recall discussions with a family member who felt that mixed race marriages were wrong. Their initial concern was how it would affect any children resulting from such a union. I know quite a few children from mixed race marriages who are extremely happy, incredibly smart, and very well-adjusted. I know of one who has made it into what is probably the most powerful office in the world. This family member based their opinions on the Bible. I asked if they felt it was wrong for a Caucasian to marry an Asian. They were okay with that. I said, "Really? Because those are two different races. Apparently, the Bible says that is wrong."

It bothers me greatly that you would deny the happiness to your fellow citizens that you would have been denied not so very long ago, for the same reasons that it would have been denied to you.

4. Finally, it's hard to sit there and hear someone you love and respect more than just about anyone on the planet say, "I'm tired of my country telling me that I'm not good enough to have the same rights as other citizens." This person is kind, loving, decent, a productive member of society, and a responsible citizen. You spoke of your work with those afflicted with AIDS, so you know that members of the GLBT community are people, not just a demographic. They bleed, they struggle, they live their lives, just like any of the rest of us...and they LOVE just like the rest of us.

I respect your right to oppose marriage equality based on your religious views. But I hope that you will continue to consider that our laws are not based on the Bible or on any other religious text. That is contrary to our Constitution. You can have a moral objection based on what the Bible says, but when it comes to our laws, your biblically based moral objection, frankly, doesn't matter. I want every person in this country to have the same right to marry that you and [your husband] had, even though there are still some that would object to your union—based on their own interpretation of the Bible.

My initial angry response was wrong, and I'm sorry for that. I consider you a thinking woman who is willing to explore her feelings on such matters. I hope you will continue to do so (even I didn't get to this point overnight!) and I hope we can keep the dialogue open.

All my best, 

Beth

Monday, October 11, 2010

No More Mr. Nice Guy

AliceL Maybe I'm just "in a mood" tonight, but I'm feeling rather fierce.

Not stabby or anything, not ready to rip someone's head off. I'm actually in a pretty good mood...it was a beautiful, sunny weekend, and my Irish and my Colts both won. A few hitches along the way, but all in all, it ended up being a good weekend. Got some stuff done, some things tidied up, and that always makes me feel good.

However, I read a few things tonight that have made me more than ready to rumble. New York Governor candidate Carl "Hair Trigger" Paladino made some remarks concerning homosexuals, saying that he didn't want children...

"...to be brainwashed into thinking that homosexuality is an equally valid or successful option," compared to heterosexuality. "It isn't."

"I just think my children and your children would be much better off and much more successful getting married and raising a family." Paladino also slammed his Democratic opponent, New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo, for marching in New York's gay pride parade in June. "That's not the example that we should be showing the children and certainly not in our schools," he said.

More in a moment, but one quick thing about that. I've never had children. Does that mean that I am somehow "lesser" of a person? Does that make me any less of a citizen?

Then I read something from a family member:

Gays expecting special treatment pisses me off. They say they want equality, but what they really want is preferential treatment. Kind of like feminists. They want the same pay, same benefits, and all else, but they want to be treated better. I say, to BOTH feminists and homosexuals, if you want the pay and benefits on an equal basis with heterosexual men, you had better be willing to be treated the same way we do.

Yeah. There's a very good reason I'm not friends with some people on Facebook.

Okay. Let's get this straight. So to speak. Ha! Gays and feminists don't want to be treated "better." We want to be treated EQUALLY. Do you comprehend that term? EQUAL to others. Same pay for the same job done; the right to love whoever we happen to love and the right to marry them; the same rights guaranteed to everyone under OUR Constitution.

That family member's comment is also interesting in that it implies that heterosexual men are somehow treated badly...that any gays or feminists expecting equal rights should be willing to be treated the same as straight men. Oh...you mean like...being treated well? Treated fairly? Treated as if gender or orientation doesn't matter?

I made a couple of disparaging remarks about Paladino on Facebook. I believe it involved something about how he can shove his homophobic views right up his ass. Someone called me out on it, said that was hateful, stooping to Paladino's level, and no better than the tactics that Paladino was using.

Rainbow cakeThat is where the "No More Mr. Nice Guy" thought came in. I'm a little tired of being nice. I'm tired of sitting back and letting these people say whatever they want, while the rest of us just sit back and say, "Ohhh, well...you know...they're entitled to their own opinion." Of course, they are. And I am also entitled to stand up and say that they are a sack of shit with no compassion and no understanding of other human beings, someone blinded by their own narrow dogma, and someone who is setting themselves up as judge and jury of humanity. People like Paladino don't want a dialogue. They are not going to listen to our impassioned pleas to understand where we're coming from, or try to see things from our point of view. They are firmly implanted in the concrete of their own self-righteousness, and they don't believe that homersexticals are "normal." And apparently some people would add feminists to that.

I don't want to play nice anymore. Paladino went on to say that he believes in "live and let live." I guess as long as those dirty homos don't have the same rights as the rest of us do! I read several comments tonight about how homosexuality is a choice. Right. Because everyone wants to be bullied and picked on and treated as less than equal to others in their own country, even those who served as soldiers in defense of it. I honestly see no reason why we shouldn't stand up and call these people the bigots and hatemongers they are, and I have no problem with using strong language to do so. They certainly don't respond to reasonable discourse, so a "shove it up your ass" here and there seems warranted.

By no means do I advocate violence. Quite the opposite. But I'm also not going to sit quietly while hearing people like Paladino make such remarks against a number of our citizens, people that I love dearly and value highly. If I am violent, it is with my words. Sometimes that is exactly what is needed. I make no apologies for that. If anyone...ANYONE...ever fucks with my loved ones and friends who happen to be gay, I'm here to tell you that I will fuck your shit up. Please make a note of it.

I got no friends 'cause they read the papers

They can't be seen with me

And I'm feelin' real shot down

And I'm gettin' mean