Chuck waxes nostalgic for the good old days when everyone viewed America the way our founders did...and by everyone I guess he means white Christian males. At the time of the founding of our republic, remember that women couldn't vote, and blacks were not considered "complete" people. In Chuck's utopian world-that-never-was, everyone showed their love for America by declaring "a good ol'-fashioned Christmas proclamation of Christ's birth."
I've already written about that, so I won't go into Chuck's obvious ignorance of the truth of the matter. I will, however, say that I find his particular brand of intolerance and his failure to comprehend that America consists of more than kickboxing white male conservative Christians to be dismaying and all too typical of what way too many others believe.
President Obama (Yeah, Chuck, I know you're having a hard time dealing with it, but he really is the President...and he's your President! Dig it!) caught a lot of flak a while back for saying that we are not a Christian nation. As hard as it may be for people to accept that, it's the truth. We are a nation of many faiths, including those who have no faith at all. It doesn't mean that anyone of a different faith or lack thereof is less of an American or a "bad" American. They're still American.
Thomas Jefferson, in the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, wrote:
That no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burdened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinion in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.
I feel that Jefferson was one of the most visionary men in history; regardless of his own feelings about religion or how he practiced it, he realized that true freedom could come only when a government does not have the power to coerce any citizen into a certain type of belief system, or into any type of belief system.
Jefferson's far-thinking words are perverted by groups like the Discovery Institute, who insert themselves into political issues and whose main goal is to promote the teaching of intelligent design in public schools, despite claiming to be a secular organization. According to their Wedge Document, they want to "defeat scientific materialism and its destructive moral, cultural, and political legacies" and to "replace materialistic explanations with the theistic understanding that nature and human beings are created by God." What the hell is "scientific materialism," anyway? Do they mean things like proven scientific facts? Those pesky scientists and all their fancy book-learnin'. "Everyone would have fallen in line and believed like we told them if it weren't for you meddling scientists!" [shaking fist]
The Treaty of Tripoli, signed by President John Adams in 1797, states in Article 11:
As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion [italics mine]; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
(This last one is particularly apt concerning a future topic: religious and ethnic profiling. Stay tuned.)
You can bitch about it all you want, Chuck, but if you'd bother to do a couple of hours of research or attempt to move beyond your apparently limited capacity for comprehension of even the most fundamental of concepts, you might find out that your ramblings are just so much bullshit.
You're also a crappy writer.
(Note: A special thank you to my Facebook and Blogger friends such as Darren, Diana, DB, Alex, Tim, and anyone else who has been there for discussion, information, and links. I love to have my horizons broadened, and you're all damned good at it!)
Actually, the Puritans and early Christians that came to America did not come here seeking religious freedom. They came here because they were thrown out of England for being too damn kooky.
ReplyDeleteYou should read Sarah Vowel's book The Wordy Shipmates. It's a great little insight into the whole Church of England and Puritan gripefest.
I am not an Obama supporter, in the sense that I did not vote for him. However, he is the President of the Country I live in, and I will accept and support his decisions, etc because that's how this country is supposed to work.
ReplyDeleteTo see the nonsense that has been spewn about Obama is bad enough, to see that there are people who actually embrace said nonsense as Gospel (for lack of a better word) and use it as a base of opposition is just disheartening.
Judge the man after he has been allowed to succeed or fail. Do not shut the man out for reasons that are beyond reason. He has a tough job ahead, without fighting grade-school mentalities that say "let's not let Barack play with us, he's a terrorist".
Sad.
For shame, our President is being tolerant and welcoming to all. Chuck shows the danger of taking a single quote and making a generalization. Perhaps he and the Quitter should run together. They could promise to appoint Bachman as the Secretary of State. Bleh.
ReplyDeleteHaven't been by in awhile and it seems you still got it going on girl. Take care of you and yours always,
ReplyDeleteKatie
I wrote a comment and now it's gone?
ReplyDeleteAmen, Sister! :-)
ReplyDeleteBeth, thank you for the note of appreciation.
ReplyDeleteThe only way it could be said that this nation was founded on Christianity and thus a Christian nation is if the founders had carefully studied all the world's religions and after having done that decided to make Christianity the source of their belief systems. They clearly did not do that. It is said we are a Christian nation because the founders were Christians. That's a fruitless claim. They were Christians by default. The early settlers came over here from Christian nations. If they had come from Japan instead would we then be a Buddhist nation? And as for Christian principles, what's the difference between those and the principles of any freedom seeking, neighbor loving faith, monotheistic or otherwise.
I wonder how many so-called Christians even think about "Christian principles."
DB
People such as Chuck believe more in mob rule than democracy. They selectively decide what to believe in doctrines - be it the Bible, or the Constitution - and refuse to really acknowledge what a 'return to a more simple time' means to others. They are selfish and thoughtless people, whose tunnel vision continues the 'me' generation of the Reagan years, and forget the many people left out. As long as the middle income and rich white folks were being taken care of, they are happy. I guess the man who has divorced and had a child out of wedlock, doesn't want to really think what it would mean to really go through with his return to values...
ReplyDeleteI take ignorant folks quite seriously. They are prone to falling for whoever is selling them magic beans and expecting something to sprout from their planting.
ReplyDeleteI was hoping you may chatted up Robbie Hummel and the Boilmakers... how long has THAT cat been in school..? Anyway... I don't have a lot to add to a subject you have been so thorough in discussing!
Hi Beth,
ReplyDeleteOh, Lordy, Chuck Norris is at it, again. Someone should give him a history book. The days of the Founding Fathers weren't any simpler. I guess he's living in a pipe dream where everyone thinks and -- dare I say it -- acts like he does!
Best,
Marty
yep. i am sure the orginal pilgrim CHRISTMAS has a multitude of parallels to our own version of the holiday. that's why we don't hear about santa being on the mayflower. ever.
ReplyDeletepersonally i think the pilgrims would of put their thumbs down about the way that christmas has been commericalized, and i am also pretty sure they would of not came here had a walmart been anywhere in the vicinity of plymouth rock.
xxalainaxx
BRAVO!! You just keep getting better and better.
ReplyDeleteLOL. You wrote such a compelling piece Beth, but right now all I can do is laugh. The Chuck Norris cat picture is priceless. :)
ReplyDeleteVery well put, as always. Your conclusion that the Pilgrims came to Plymouth seeking separation from the Anglican Church is accurate. I've read the book that Dan references and it is indeed well done, but the author makes a clear distinction between the settlers at Plymouth and the Puritans who subsequently broke away and established the Massachussetts Bay Colony. The Pilgrims were Separatists and left England and settled in Holland for about a dozen years before embarking on their journey to America. The Puritans splintered off from the Separatists. The difference in the two was that the Separatists did not feel that the Church of England had adequately severed its ties with Roman Catholicism and had indeed adopted the same type of hierarchy, replacing the Pope as ultimate authority with the monarch of England. The Puritans actually supported the Anglican Church and parted ways with the Separatists on the need to separate from the Anglican Church. Any way, not trying to give you a lesson in religious history, just saying in my long winded way that you were completely accurate in your characterization of the Pilgrims choosing to leave England in an effort to engage in religious freedom.
ReplyDelete